Author Topic: devpoast - transformer bastion marauders  (Read 4063 times)

Ydnari

  • Corp - EFRON
  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 5172
Re: devpoast - transformer bastion marauders
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2013, 11:18:31 PM »
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3571728#post3571728

Quote
#1967 Posted: 2013.09.04 15:58  |  Report    |  Edited by: CCP Ytterbium
Like
10
Time for another update.

We discussed the Marauder situation further and came with the following changes:


    Shield, armor and hull 30% resistance boosts have been removed on the Bastion Module - instead, all Marauders will now get proper tech2 resists. This will allow Marauders to have better RR use outside Bastion and reduce overall tanking effectiveness inside the mode.

    We have removed all tanking bonuses on the Marauders hulls (Armor Repairer amount on the Paladin and Kronos, Shield Boost amount on the Golem and Vargur). Instead, we are giving them 7.5% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level. This will not only help reducing their tanking effectiveness, be more in theme with the ship role itself and help anyone using them with short range weapons. We are not giving them a full 10% per level back as this would be extremely powerful in conjunction with the other bonuses / Bastion. We are going to leave the full 10% web strength amount on the Serpentis ships for now and see how things evolve with time.

    Also, we are removing the mass penalty on the Bastion mode. Tests have shown you can't really turn when it's active anyway, and we don't want to have players abuse that to collapse wormholes.



I will change the OP to match the changes.


hmmmm

Furia Taurina

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 3830
Re: devpoast - transformer bastion marauders
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2013, 12:22:46 AM »
Not impressed the Kronos is loosing its Armor Rep bonus. I think they are taking these ships too far away from what they were originally put in the game to be.

Anyone want to buy a Rigged Kronos?

Letri Bimmet

  • [EFRON] Letri Bimmet
  • EFRON Directors
  • Member
  • Posts: 4195
  • It's Nevets 2.0 vs Rizendoekie!
Re: devpoast - transformer bastion marauders
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2013, 05:34:09 AM »
That's a wierd change. So cause a few pie bs are good at pve they change up the marauders wich were originally pve kings...
Why not remove the tanking bonus once the 'siege' mod is activated?
another EFRON ex director, Yes they are plentyfull around these parts

Klai

  • [EFRON] Stickyhand
  • EFRON
  • Member
  • Posts: 446
Re: devpoast - transformer bastion marauders
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2013, 11:53:09 AM »
The key line is:

Quote
Instead, all Marauders will now get proper tech2 resists. This will allow Marauders to have better RR use outside Bastion and reduce overall tanking effectiveness inside the mode.

So depending on what they mean by "proper" they may be viable outside of pure pve. It has to be a number that leaves their tanking ability at least equal to previously outside of bastion which would be a minimum of 25%. But nowhere near the level of say Hac resists. Meaning it could be anywhere from 25-50% on the resists.

If it was 25-30% they would continue to be useless outside of pve. If it was on the real high end (as "proper" might suggest) then they could have a purpose.

Edit: Either way they seem to have absolutely no idea what they are doing with these, no coherence of vision whatsoever.

Sparkus Volundar

  • [APCR] Sparkus Volundar
  • WiFi Blues
  • Member
  • Posts: 849
Re: devpoast - transformer bastion marauders
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2013, 01:30:53 PM »
The key line is:

Quote
Instead, all Marauders will now get proper tech2 resists. This will allow Marauders to have better RR use outside Bastion and reduce overall tanking effectiveness inside the mode.

So depending on what they mean by "proper" they may be viable outside of pure pve. It has to be a number that leaves their tanking ability at least equal to previously outside of bastion which would be a minimum of 25%. But nowhere near the level of say Hac resists. Meaning it could be anywhere from 25-50% on the resists.

They have the full HAC/HIC-style resists on page one of the Dev thread (75% and 50% bonuses), which is pretty ridiculous.

They don't have nerfed scan res anymore and SS is easily fixed locally or remotely so they are basically Heavy Assault Battleships fathered by some Serpentis overlord and will probably (hopefully) not make it to release.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 01:36:42 PM by Sparkus Volundar »

Fykes

  • Slag
  • EFRON
  • Member
  • Posts: 2166
Re: devpoast - transformer bastion marauders
« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2013, 01:34:32 PM »
i guess they'll be great for l4s zzzzzz

Klai

  • [EFRON] Stickyhand
  • EFRON
  • Member
  • Posts: 446
Re: devpoast - transformer bastion marauders
« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2013, 06:02:36 PM »
Probably means they will now be seen as T2 battleships in the pvp sense, prepare yourself for a ton of disgusting marauder doctrines. Eugh power creep. Why the hell would you nerf the resist bonus by 1% per level because of the imbalance it causes and then give marauders hac resists.

« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 06:13:52 PM by Klai »

Ricand Michelliaos

  • EFRON Ricand Michelliaos
  • EFRON Recruiter
  • Member
  • Posts: 1664
  • My friends call me Ric, but you can call me Judge
Re: devpoast - transformer bastion marauders
« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2013, 06:27:18 PM »
Alpha Fleets being replaced with Marauder fleets? I'm okay with this
Ricand- Pronounced Rye-Canned.

Red Woodson

  • [EFRON] Red Woodson
  • EFRON
  • Member
  • Posts: 2041
Re: devpoast - transformer bastion marauders
« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2013, 06:43:36 PM »
Meh, alpha vargur ;p

So, let me see if I have this straight.. marauders check both boxes for the 2* conditions local rep bonuses are most likely to outperform resist bonuses, so ccp are going to drop that bonus on them in favor of a slight increase to their resists from now recieving full rather than limited T2 resists, yet ccp have left commandships with local tank bonuses?  How much more *facepalm* can you get?

*Local tanking in pve due to the limited incoming damage types, and when you are unable to recieve RR for a period of time long enough the local rep bonus can overcome the extra buffer from the resist bonus.

OTOH, the overall changes make the better for incursions, even if you do lose some web strength on the Pali and Kronos.
When don't have a good enough interwebs connection to play eve, you forum warrior.  When you forum warrior, you annoy the wrong people.  When you annoy the wrong people, you have a contract put out on you.  Don't have a contract put out on you, get better interwebs.

Fykes

  • Slag
  • EFRON
  • Member
  • Posts: 2166
Re: devpoast - transformer bastion marauders
« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2013, 06:58:56 PM »
too bad ytterbium didn't do the commandship rework, they might not be crap.  too bad he is doing the maruader one because some of rise's/fozzie's out-of-left-field bullshit solo pvp buffs might actually have made them interesting (since they didn't have a ~pvp~ role already, it wouldn't be bad trying to shoehorn then into solo/small gang bonuses).

(yeah yeah they say they all work on it together, i know, but it seems pretty obvious the marauder changes are coming from a drastically different source than the commandship ones)
« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 07:04:41 PM by Fykes »

Klai

  • [EFRON] Stickyhand
  • EFRON
  • Member
  • Posts: 446
Re: devpoast - transformer bastion marauders
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2013, 08:56:51 PM »
I'm with Red on the command ships. Especially since they need tank more than anyone (if you intend for them to be on grid). Just say no to local rep bonuses. If you're going to do a rep bonus it has to apply to everything.

Marauders will definitely be viable....The problem I have with them is the additional power creep after they specifically stated this was something they did not want.

The hacs i've tried (mostly centered around using rails / beams) have been overly good for small-medium fleets (as expected). Some to the point of being broken, especially the rails.

On the note of solo hacs: Anyone else try the 800 hp / sec effective rep solo deimos? Yep, that works now. You can even make it dual prop.  And yes you can make fits that out rep myrmidons that are over 500dps. Broken as all hell.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 09:16:37 PM by Klai »

Klai

  • [EFRON] Stickyhand
  • EFRON
  • Member
  • Posts: 446
Re: devpoast - transformer bastion marauders
« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2013, 04:18:24 PM »
In CCP Rise's latest post he deciphers arcane knowledge to reveal that power creep results in power creep:

Quote from: CCP Rise
Hey guys

Wanted to just drop and in and say that we're keeping up on feedback and appreciate all the input.  We will probably slow down a bit here and look to wait awhile before sharing a new iteration with you.  We want to do process a lot of the feedback, do some testing internally and have some more dialogue in the department and after that we'll come back here.

We're definitely running into some problems where these ships are showing potential for a wide range of applications which can lead to balance concerns for some things and obviously can lead to frustration about the ships not being strong enough for others.  We want them to be awesome, just like you, and by the time winter comes I think we'll be in a good place.

In the mean time keep up the discussion and you'll hear from us again soon o/

Source